Hpathy.com  
 Homeopathy for Everyone   Discussion ForumsForums Online CoursesCourses Store 4 Books, Medicines, SoftwareShop Homeopathic Disease PrognosisDiseases ArticlesArticles Homeopathy JournalJournal Directory of HomeopathsDirectory
Everything Homeopathic!
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: What is Vital Force
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Calendar   Register Register  Login Login

What is Vital Force

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 789
Author
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
chiongguo View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 Sept. 07
Location: Malaysia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17
  Quote chiongguo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What is Vital Force
    Posted: 14 Nov. 09 at 01:35
Originally posted by AlexS


Yes I did !


The other sharp lesson was a case of heart failure in a woman of 29, mitral incompetence, etc., that I got permission to treat after admission to the L. H. H. Here I have the house physician's notes and measurements. She worked out Arsenicum, and I gave a dose of Ars. CM two days running (as she had been given a dose of Spig. low in the intervening night, and it might have interrupted). The effect was magical. Three days later (only four days after admission):

          The heart had contracted, and was now only one inch, instead of two, to right of the sternal margin. The liver had also contracted, and now, in the nipple line, measured 6 1/4 inches instead of 8 3/4 inches.One hundred heart beats out of one hundred and forty-four now reached the wrist, instead of sixty-two out of one hundred and sixty.

          She was sleeping quietly at night, instead of the suffocating spells when she dozed, and the frequent vomitings all night that had been a feature of the case.

          She felt very much better. Every one was amazed at the improvement, and, in my joy and desire to hasten matters yet more, I gave her, a week later, another dose of Ars. CM. And that ended the case - in all senses! She grew worse. Lyc. was given, and failed to relieve. All her fearful restlessness returned; she could stay nowhere. She demanded to go home, where she died very soon after.




   So what are some of the lessons we draw from this ?

a.  Homoeopathic remedies do have biological and psychological effects.

b.  I do not know much about homoeopathy as I am just learning but I thought that in acute situations we should not use such a high potency.

c.  If such high potency remedies were given and the effects were not as expected they could have easily given her an antidote.

d.  Becareful of prescribing high potency remedies.

*** So AlexS can we now have an agreement that homoeopathic remedies do have biological and psychological effects ?




Back to Top
sajjadakram View Drop Down
Professional
Professional
Avatar

Joined: 04 Jan. 06
Location: Pakistan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1908
  Quote sajjadakram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov. 09 at 03:07

The law of similar governs selection of remedy. Potency selection depends on the experience of the physician. Some are in favour of high and some in low. In early days, Hahnemann used low and was successful then he found that high is also effective. Followers proved it through their clinical practice.  Personally, I believe that low or high is equally effective provided the selection is correct, whether it is similar or partially similar; be given in single or watery repeated doses.However, if you try to solve a case with various prevailing methods, the remedy selection will not be the same. For this, I have no explanationsSmile.
sajjad.

Back to Top
Kaviraj View Drop Down
Professional
Professional
Avatar

Joined: 23 Oct. 08
Location: London
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1988
  Quote Kaviraj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov. 09 at 03:16
Sajjad,

potency selection is as much a function of the law of similars as the selection of the remedy.

Low vitality demands low potency, medium vitality demand an equal potency and high vitality can be served with high potencies. If physicians favour or despise any potency they have not understood the law of similars and the importance of correct potency selection.

When opinions take the place of scientific certainties we get cases like the above, which are an abject lesson to the fact that potency selection also ought to follow the law of similars.

As Kent says:

"Everything must be methodical. The physician must be classical. Science ceases to be scientific when disorderly application of the Law is made."
In the service of SB 1/5/33 and the Previous Masters.

Do not accept or reject anything until you have investigated and tested it on its own merits.
similicure@yahoo.co.uk
Back to Top
sajjadakram View Drop Down
Professional
Professional
Avatar

Joined: 04 Jan. 06
Location: Pakistan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1908
  Quote sajjadakram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov. 09 at 03:23
Kaviraj,
Thank youSmileSmile but what about if we select different remedy by using different methods.
sajjad.
Back to Top
sajjadakram View Drop Down
Professional
Professional
Avatar

Joined: 04 Jan. 06
Location: Pakistan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1908
  Quote sajjadakram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov. 09 at 03:37
A friend of mine excited me to read books of Dr Seghal”revolutionized homeopathy”: I will get those books within few days from India. I do not know, after reading what will happen with me.
sajjad.
Back to Top
elena View Drop Down
Student
Student
Avatar

Joined: 17 Oct. 04
Location: 0
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 347
  Quote elena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov. 09 at 04:13
Chiongguo,
 
I think Alex's point is not that homeoapthic remedies work - or do not work, - but that homeopaths are sloppy, irresponsible and otherwise unreliable people. So far I could not make out what his assessment of conventional medicine is, though.
 
Then, he quotes this one case, and says that percentage of homeopaths failing their cases is high, I wonder what does he think about the number of cases that Margaret Tyler has got to treat during her career? Two? then he would calculate that she was 50% failure - or what?
Back to Top
FHLew View Drop Down
Professional
Professional
Avatar

Joined: 25 April 07
Location: Malaysia
Online Status: Online
Posts: 117
  Quote FHLew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov. 09 at 05:46
Dear AlexS,

         I am confused . Could you kindly enlighten me what the house physician wrote ?

< The heart had contracted, and was now only one inch, instead of two, to right of the sternal margin. The liver had also contracted, and now, in the nipple line, measured 6 1/4 inches instead of 8 3/4 inches.One hundred heart beats out of one hundred and forty-four now reached the wrist, instead of sixty-two out of one hundred and sixty.

You  wrote

  < In order to heal the concept if VF is redundant and confusing .....>

 Just out of curiosity, personally from you, Alex,

 1. Why the heart and liver can contract and enlarge.?
 2. Why the seemingly recovering patient died so soon ?



      Stefanatos ( 1997,228 ) tells us that the " electromagnetic fields (EMF)emanating from bacteria,viruses and toxic substances affect cells of the body and weaken its constitution." So the vital force is identified quite explicitly with electromagnetic fields and said to be the cause of disease. But somehow the life energies of the body are balanced by bioenergetic therapies. " No antibiotic or drug, no matter how powerful, will save an animal or human if the vital force of healing is suppressed or lacking ." ( Stefanatos 1997, 229 ) So health or sickness is determined  by who wins the battle between good and bad electromagnetic waves in the body.

" Einstein " is a name found frequently in the literature on bioenergetic fields. Stephantos (1997,228 ) says: " Based on Einstein's theories of quantum physics, these energetic concepts are being integrated into medicine for a comprehensive approach to disease diagnosis, prevention and treatment."

 
<C.G. Hempel, by contrast, insists that the fault with vitalism is not that it posits entities which cannot be observed, but that such explanations ‘render all statements about entelechies inaccessible to empirical test and thus devoid of empirical meaning’ because no methods of test, however indirect, are provided

      This ia my point of view.>

    CG Hempel is not elaborating on  Homeopathy : the Vital Energy of Hahnemann's Vital principle.( Sixth Edition of Organon ). This worthy is
expounding  Semiotics: the Science of Signs.

     I will get back to you when I return home from my 24 hour out-patient clinic.


With regards
    Lew
       
There are many races on Mother Earth but there is Only One colourful race : the Human Race.
Back to Top
chiongguo View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 Sept. 07
Location: Malaysia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17
  Quote chiongguo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov. 09 at 06:30
Originally posted by AlexS



  In short what you are saying is that something that is well-defined is something that has physical existence ?  Isn't such definitions nothing more than a definition of the effects than of the substance itself ? 


I think you are right , but science do not bother itself with such questions : when new concept is defined ( concepts like force ... ) there is should be definition how to measure it.


 That is not true.  When I was doing by undergraduate studies in physics my professors would simply dump a "blinking" factor into an equation to "correct" a "phenomenon" or "effects" that it still doesn't have "blinking" idea about.

  Over time the correcting factor take form with more data and more experiments and more testing and guessing.  And then voila it has new "meaning" but aren't such ascribed meaning derived from abstraction ?   If so what is measurable only provided an "inkling" into what is and NOT what is !

  Btw. I wasn't asking the question for science to answer but for you to reflect on 8-) !


  Let's take gravitational force as an example. It is defined as the force of attraction between two masses. This force of attraction can of course be measured you would say but what you are actually measuring is not the force itself but the effects of the force itself.

Again , science do not bother itself with such questions.



Again, the question is not for science to answer but for you to reflect on.  So am I correct in saying what I had said.  You can't just dismiss it.



 What is important may not be measurable and what is measurable may not be important. We should not be enslaved by what is measurable.

Scientific theories do not operated with unmeasurable parameters.


   Then I can only say that you do not understand the progression of the scientific method. When you have reached the stage where meaningful measurement could be made you would have gone through quite a few iterations of "guessing" the relevant and necessary parameters.

    The germ theory of disease do not contain measurable parameters but qualitative parameters.  Statistical measurement could be used to DEDUCE a set of conclusion but its causative nature would not be conclusive.

    The genetic theory of cancer is another example of theories based on qualitative observations.


   Many had used these abstractions to help them understand the derangement and disharmony in the body. It is a useful mental tool eventhough it is not scientifically established.

I think Hahnemann did not want to establish this concept scientifically - he wanted to created semi-secret society.


  You could read his mind ?




Back to Top
AlexS View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 03 March 08
Location: Israel
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 585
  Quote AlexS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov. 09 at 02:31
Originally posted by chiongguo



   So what are some of the lessons we draw from this ?

a.  Homoeopathic remedies do have biological and psychological effects.

b.  I do not know much about homoeopathy as I am just learning but I thought that in acute situations we should not use such a high potency.

c.  If such high potency remedies were given and the effects were not as expected they could have easily given her an antidote.

d.  Becareful of prescribing high potency remedies.

*** So AlexS can we now have an agreement that homoeopathic remedies do have biological and psychological effects ?






From these lines I can conclude that you did not read my posts - you ascribed me view I never expressed.
Should I continue to talk with you ?


Back to Top
AlexS View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 03 March 08
Location: Israel
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 585
  Quote AlexS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov. 09 at 02:38
Originally posted by elena

Chiongguo,
 
I think Alex's point is not that homeoapthic remedies work - or do not work, - but that homeopaths are sloppy, irresponsible and otherwise unreliable people. So far I could not make out what his assessment of conventional medicine is, though.
 
Then, he quotes this one case, and says that percentage of homeopaths failing their cases is high, I wonder what does he think about the number of cases that Margaret Tyler has got to treat during her career? Two? then he would calculate that she was 50% failure - or what?

1) You misinterpret my posts .
2) In order to manage successful health  business one should advertise successes and to be silent about failures .

This is how our world is built.
Back to Top
AlexS View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 03 March 08
Location: Israel
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 585
  Quote AlexS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov. 09 at 02:40
Originally posted by FHLew

Dear AlexS,

         I am confused . Could you kindly enlighten me what the house physician wrote ?




I am confused too - I do not understand what you want from me !


Back to Top
AlexS View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 03 March 08
Location: Israel
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 585
  Quote AlexS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov. 09 at 02:52
Originally posted by chiongguo



 That is not true.  When I was doing by undergraduate studies in physics my professors would simply dump a "blinking" factor into an equation to "correct" a "phenomenon" or "effects" that it still doesn't have "blinking" idea about.

  Over time the correcting factor take form with more data and more experiments and more testing and guessing.  And then voila it has new "meaning" but aren't such ascribed meaning derived from abstraction ?   If so what is measurable only provided an "inkling" into what is and NOT what is !




There are scientific hypothesis ( theories )and non-scientific ones .

I refer to  Karl Popper .
Your professor made scientific hypothesis - this is hypothesis which could be refuted or partially confined my experimental data.

But the hypothesis like "God exists" , "People fall sick because primeval sin" ( Theme so liked by some homeopaths ) are unscientific ones .

And what is important that hypothesis should be expressed in clear way .

P.S. Did you hear the phrase "Shut up and calculate !"


Back to Top
FHLew View Drop Down
Professional
Professional
Avatar

Joined: 25 April 07
Location: Malaysia
Online Status: Online
Posts: 117
  Quote FHLew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov. 09 at 08:21
         You wrote:

     <  I am confused too - I do not understand what you want from me !>

   Essentially nothing except wanting to know whether you are a medical doctor.

      You  have posted

                < In order to heal the concept if VF is redundant and confusing .....>

With regards
      Lew
There are many races on Mother Earth but there is Only One colourful race : the Human Race.
Back to Top
AlexS View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 03 March 08
Location: Israel
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 585
  Quote AlexS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov. 09 at 05:36
Originally posted by FHLew

        

   

   Essentially nothing except wanting to know whether you are a medical doctor.

     


Why you did not ask me directly ?

I am a patient .


Back to Top
FHLew View Drop Down
Professional
Professional
Avatar

Joined: 25 April 07
Location: Malaysia
Online Status: Online
Posts: 117
  Quote FHLew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov. 09 at 01:14
AlexS, you asked me,
   
                 <  Why you did not ask me directly ? >

     Simply because I would consider it impudent ethically .
       The information is voluntary when there is resonance.

                     Semiotically phrased,

                 The person is not the name
                 The description is not the fact     
                          
                   

                       < I am a patient >

    You please tell me , AlexS,  how many of us are not deficient one way or the other? We are ENTROPY personified !  But we source from our environment, the universe,for daily maintenance  for  what Hahnemann deemed as " self-preservation " through resonance. We selfishly replenish our deficiencies drawn from the universe without
violating The Second Law of Thermodynamics for " self-preservation ".
This leaves us an entropic Universe in chaos.  Semiotically, the anti-entropy principle for  " self-preservation "  is Hahnemann' s  Vital Principle " where life is sustained by the vital energy carrying the requisite information drawn from the universe through  “ space resonances “.
     Einstein stumbled when he postulated matter as a spherical force field rather than as a Spherical Standing Wave ( Mach's adage: matter out there affects forces right here ) ,a primordial Harmonic Template,forged by cosmic fire,with all the extant vibratory signatures of the Cosmic Dust .The Universal Language, Mother Nature's primordial resonance of the DNA, is the first one known to all life on Earth. It is still understood by animals and to some extent by plant life. It has a very wide vocabulary which includes images, symbols, feelings, sensations, scents, harmonics, colour, art, and music. The Russian genetic team found this to be so in the 90 % junk DNA discarded by comtemporary scientists.

          Groundbreaking Russian DNA Discoveries

 Esoteric and spiritual teachers have known for ages that our body is programmable by language,words and thought. This has now been scientifically proven and explained.Human DNA acts like a biological version of the Internet and it is superior to the artificial one in many ways.

http://divinecosmos.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=362&Itemid=30

           The Quantum Universe and Space Resonances
              http://www.quantummatter.com/space_resonance.html

          AlexS, you are more than a patient. You frame your thoughts in words in your postings  cloaked in semiological terms with the vital energy invested in you, which others may not be familiar with. Thought -forms are generated through the form follows energy principle.  These are vibrant entities : that is why you have attracted comments even though you have never defined your premise for concept or materialism for forum members to follow your trend of  thinking.

      Thoughts as visualised speech heard in silent reading, prayer or observation, are osseous vibrations amplified in mineralised body cavities.
        Biology apparently does much more than detection and correction of errors. It not only is anti-entropic, it is also neg-entropic; that is, it also produces new malefic information despite all the opposing forces of nature . It’s called negative feedback, isn’t it? Our DNA is changing.

     New evidence shows the brain's conversations with the body and the universe might also occur on the quantum level, with waves and frequencies, rather with chemical or electrical impulses alone. Our memories don't sit inside our heads at all. Our brains are simply the retrieval and read-out mechanism of the ultimate storage medium.
                              - The Life Field ( Burr )

 
AlexS,
                    We SEE sounds and HEAR colours

                  
                     The Vibratory Signatures of Gaia

        "   If only we knew, Boss,what the stones and rain and
flowers say. Maybe they call us - and we don't hear them. When will people's ears open, Boss? " So asks Zorba in Nikos Kazantzakis' Zorba the Greek.

With regards
   Lew

There are many races on Mother Earth but there is Only One colourful race : the Human Race.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 789

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down