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Revisiting: Another Famous Person Quiz–Muriel and Thurgood Orenthal Stubbs

Thurgood Orenthal Stubbs

To read last month’s full case quiz. Visit – Another Famous Person Quiz–Muriel and Thurgood Orenthal Stubbs [1]

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VOTES

Thurgood                  Muriel-flu                 Muriel-const.

  1.     Sulph.                        Phos.                                Phosphorus
  2.     Sulph.                         Ars.                                  Carcinosin
  3.     Lyco.                           Ars.                                  Pulsatilla
  4.     Lach.                           Ars.                                  Phosphorus
  5.     Lyco.                           Ars.                                  Pulsatilla
  6.     Sulph.                         Ars.                                  Calc-carb.
  7.     Ars.                             Puls.                                 Nat-mur.
  8.    Sulph.                          Ars.                                   Phosphorus

Just about everyone seemed to know that Muriel had an Arsenicum flu, and I guess that’s the important thing!  Is anybody here today?  Who wants to go first?

 

Hi Elaine ,

Hi Neil!

What a funny show!

Oh, I know!!!!!  I love it!  I hope you get a chance to watch the other episodes.  You can probably order the full series on DVD.  Do a search for “The PJs”.

I think Muriel is Phosphorus as she desires reassurance.

Yes, she does for sure!  But, here’s the thing with Phosphorus and reassurance, Neil:  Phosphorus is very easily reassured!  If you say to Phosphorus, “You’re gonna be OK, everything’s gonna be fine very soon!” they will actually believe you and will feel better.  But Muriel is not easily reassured at all!  Muriel can best be described as desperate for reassurance and no amount of reassurance is ever enough!  You can see she is trying every trick, every strategy, to get Thurgood to stay.  “Can you tuck me in, Thurgood?”  But Thurgood just doesn’t get it.  He can’t wait to get out of there and go back to the living room!  

Muriel’s drinking cold drinks including fruit juice not hot drinks which would indicate Arsenicum, my second choice.

You mean you rejected Arsenicum just because she asked for juice instead of hot tea??????  Aren’t the “mentals” more important in a case, higher in the hierarchy of symptoms than the food desires????  You see, once again, I have to remind you (and most likely everyone else) to read “Repertory Round-Up, part 4” again…

https://hpathy.com/homeopathy-papers/tidbits-50-repertory-round-part-4/ [2]

…because you’re forgetting to take the “hierarchy of symptoms” into account!  She did ask for hot soup, by the way; remember?  A can of chicken soup?  Muriel’s remedy IS Arsenicum!  If her flu had settled in her chest and she was coughing, that might have led us to be thinking more of Phosphorus; but a gastro-intestinal flu, however, is more likely to be Arsenicum.  Plus, Muriel said the famous Arsenicum words:  “Don’t Leave Me!”  And that was all we needed to hear, quite frankly.  You don’t need anymore information than that!

I take exception to your criticism that I had ignored the hierarchy of symptoms when i mentioned that the patient wanted cold drinks.  You actually discussed why my selection of phosphorous was not anxious enough  in the mentals which was my starting point.  The mention of desire for cold drinks was as a consideration following the mentals and not the starting point.

Muriel’s flu is very easy.  She says, “Don’t leave me!!!!” which tells us right away that she’s Arsenicum, we don’t even need anymore information.  On the hierarchy of symptoms, you’ve got 1) a keynote of a remedy, and 2) a strong Mental/emotional.  They’re both right up there at the top.  Then you’ve got “Diagnosis” which is even higher, right under “etiology”, and since we have no etiology, our first concern is diagnosis.  Her flu is gastro-intestinal, that rules out Phosphorus which is our great pneumonia/bronchitis remedy.  So, here’s what we say, here’s how we state the problem: “I need a gastro-intestinal flu remedy with a desperate need for company and a thirst for cold drinks.”  That’s Arsenicum.
 

Constitutionally, she seems very caring of others and popular in the community, hence, Phosphorus.

Yes, she’s very well-liked!  But what did she do that was telling?  She got Thurgood all dressed to go outside in the snow, just like a mother would, and what rubric comes to mind for this?  “Over-responsible”!  Is Phosphorus in there?  No!  And when Thurgood said, “You got leggings???!!!!” what do we see in the next scene?  We see the leggings on Thurgood!  So Muriel gave up her leggings!  She’s “over-giving”, “over-responsible” and “self-sacrificing”…. What remedy does this sound like?  Carcinosin!

As for her husband, not so much to go on as he’s not unwell, seems typical male though, lol.  I’d probbly go for Sulphur due to selfishness but don’t know if he seems selfish in her eyes because of her neediness.

What strikes me about Thurgood is his aversion to responsibility!  He’s in total denial about Muriel being sick.  He does as little for her as he can get away with.  He buys aspirin but the wrong kind.  He fixes food for her without first asking what she wants.  All he can think of is how fast can he get back to what he was doing.  If I look up “aversion to responsibility”, only one remedy is in bold–Lycopodium!  (And then, there’s only one remedy in italics and probably no one will be surprised to hear that it’s Medorrhinum.)  

Secondly, what strikes me about Thurgood is that he talks with an “air of command”, like he’s some sort of very grand or exalted person, and did you know that, “talking with an air of command” is actually in the Repertory?  And there’s only 8 remedies listed for that!  “Dictatorial, talking with an air of command”–and Lycopodium is in that rubric but not Sulphur.  And a sub-rubric of that is “Love of power”, which I think sums up Thurgood pretty well as he is the “boss” of the building, and you’ll find Lycopodium is there too (under “love of power”).  So, my vote for Thurgood is Lycopodium. 

Cheers

Neil

 

Is anybody else here today?

HI Elaine,

Hi Krista!

Thanks for the fun quiz !  Short on time, but here are my answers.  Let me know if I’m on the right track.

Thurgood- Sulphur

A good guess, but, probably not.

Muriel- Arsenicum

Yes!

Muriel constiutional- again short on time here, but I vote for Carcinosin.

Yes!

Yay!  2 out of 3.

Is Thurgood Lycopodium?

Yes!

 

Thanks, Krista!  Who else is here?

 

Hi Elaine and Shana! I am here, I am here!

Maria!!!!  Thank goodness you’re alive and well!

I have been very busy, but I have been reading the quizzes, never missed one!

Oh, well that’s different.  Never mind!

For this month’s quiz my votes are:

Husband: Lycopodium

Correct!

(I thought of Sulphur too, though)

Wife’s flu: Arsenicum

Correct!

(mostly because she was screaming “don’t leave me!”)

Exactly!

Wife’s constitutional: Pulsatilla maybe. I am not sure for this either, but she seems naive and affectionate.

I wouldn’t call it naive.  Maybe “sincere”.  And yes, affectionate.  But she’s not Pulsatilla.  There aren’t too many adult Pulsatillas, Maria.  Remember why Pulsatilla is a child’s remedy:  Children’s emotions are all over the map!  They’re happy and laughing, then they’re sad and crying!  Then they’re angry about something!  Then they’re feeling sorry for themselves and pouting!  Then they’re disappointed and whining, then they’re back to being happy and laughing again!  Why does Pulsatilla fit this behavior?  Because Pulsatilla is the “Wind Flower”, remember?  Easily tossed and turned by the wind.  It’s here, it’s there, it’s this way, it’s that way… just like with a child, whose mood changes so easily.  You know that Pulsatilla has “changeable symptoms”, right?  Now, like I said, there aren’t too many adults that fit this picture!  We would find it quite alarming if we found an adult behaving in this way!

So, here’s what you can do.  Make a list of the elements of the case.  You already said “affectionate”–and I agree–and that’s in the Repertory, too.  But what else can we say about Muriel?  (“Sincere” isn’t in the Repertory for some strange reason.)

PS: I loved the Spigelia quiz!

https://hpathy.com/case-quizes/revisiting-tennis-trauma/ [3]

Thank you!

Well, the scene where Muriel is totally buying the propaganda about vaccines…

I know, I know; that was really unfortunate, and I would suggest that maybe that reflected the writers’ bias for what they think the “reasonable” position on flu prevention is, and maybe they were saying, “Muriel takes the ‘reasonable’, ‘educated’ position; Thurgood takes the ‘stupid’ position.”

…that is where she seemed naive to me.

You have to remember the mainstream media’s pro-vaccine bias.

Staphysagria is naive too, 2nd degree, Carcinosin 1.

I think she reminds me a lot of Marge Simpson, when we had the quiz on finding her remedy.

Yes, exactly, very good!

They both had idiot husbands and put up with a lot of their crap.

https://hpathy.com/case-quizes/revisiting-what-remedy-is-marge-simpson/ [4]

Yes, and this brings up a good point, because a lot of people voted for Sulphur for Thurgood, and, in fact, Sulphur was Homer Simpson’s remedy, and if you look for the key difference between the two “idiots”, Thurgood (Lycopodium) wants to be in charge, wants to be the “boss”, wants to hold power; while Homer didn’t want to be in charge of anything!  In fact, if you’ll recall, Homer didn’t know anything about his job!  Remember what it was that co-worker, Frank Grimes, said to Homer?  “You’re what’s wrong with America, Simpson; you coast through life, doing as little as possible, leaching off hard-working people like me; if you lived in any other country, you’d have starved to death long ago.  You’re a fraud, a total fraud.  [To Marge and Lisa]  It was nice meeting you.”

So that was Sulphur–lazy, coasting through life, doing as little as possible…   

They call Sulphur “the ragged philosopher”.  He spends his time forsaking friends and career pursuits in favor of “researching”, “theorizing”, engaging in “projects”, but rarely accomplishing anything, rarely finishing anything, because Sulphur is so full of ideas and theories that one thought leads to the next and the next and the next and they become so exuberant over their musings and their findings that they can’t set boundaries and goals!  Lycopodium actually strives to become something!  Becoming something is very important to him, and he usually rises to the top, as I explained in the quiz “What Remedy Is Hank Hill?”

https://hpathy.com/case-quizes/revisiting-what-remedy-is-hank-hill/   [5]

Muriel is mild, yielding, sympathetic, she freezes because Thurgood didn’t turn on the heat in the building and she reacts mildly.

Very good!  Yes, she is “mild”. 

Oh, and another sign of Thurgood’s Lycopodium nature–he’s cheap!

And he took her leg warmers and she didn’t react!

In fact, you even get the impression that she GAVE them to him.  “Selfless”.  And I think we have to add “Guilt” because when she got better, she said to Thurgood, “It wasn’t your fault, I asked for too much.”

She is somewhat poetic in nature, she still writes her journal. I don’t know the exact rubric for it.

I would say “Artistic”.

I will vote Carcinosin, but  if I am wrong I will try again!

You’re not wrong, so don’t try again!  Let’s list the elements of the case and then repertorize:

  1. Affectionate
  2. Mild
  3. Yielding, can’t say no
  4. Sympathetic
  5. Selfless
  6. Artistic
  7. Guilt feelings

And there it is, Carcinosin!

Your quizzes are so much fun!

Really???  Then you should like this month’s too! 

 

Hey everybody, Vamsi’s in the house!!!!!

Hi Elaine!  Quiz about personalities seems interesting.  Nice PJ’s episode to watch.

Muriel: Flu Remedy

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Flu symptoms– fever, sore throat, sneezes, vomits and she says

“dont leave me ” – Arsenicum album

Ding!  Ding!  Ding!  Ding!!!!!

 

Muriel: Constitutional Remedy

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She is very accomodating, polite and caring…

Right, I agree!  But what else, Vamsi?  She gave Thurgood her legwarmers so he’d be warm as they walked together out in the cold to HUD (The Department of Housing and Urban Development) to collect winter supplies for the building.  So she sacrificed her own well-being and probably made herself sick so that he could stay warm.  So what rubric is that?  “Yielding, can’t say no”.  And what other rubric goes for her?  “Responsibility, over-responsible”.  Right?  Over-responsible.  I mean, she’s dressing him to go out, like a mother would.  He even says,

“Where’s Mr. Scarf?”

Very shrewd lady knows how to get things done.

Seeing Muriel , it reminded me of this statement from your Phosphorus article:

https://hpathy.com/materia-medica/so-you-think-you-know-phosphorus/ [6]

“She is volatile emotionally and she tends to put out so much energy that she burns herself out and gets sick as a result.”

But Vamsi, Muriel’s not volatile, she’s very measured, mild, not given to outbursts.

Muriel’s Constitutional remedy represents a perfect Phosphorous according to me.

But Vamsi, Phosphorous is not over-responsible; in fact, just the opposite.  Phosphorus is listed under “aversion to responsibility”; they really don’t relish doing things for others, and they’re very undependable; they would rather that people did things for them.  It’s under “delusions: great person, is a”.  So they would most likely not be mothering somebody unless they thought they’d be gaining some advantage by doing so.  I think in that same article, Mati said, “Yes, they can be ‘doormats’ in the beginning!  But once they’re IN, now they think it’s your turn to start paying them back for all the stuff they did for you!” 

So, actually, Vamsi, I’m voting for Carcinosin for Muriel.  See “Revisiting: What Remedy Is Marge Simpson?” for a deeper discussion of Carcinosin.  Scroll up for link.

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Now for Thurgood

————-

Flu Remedy

—————

Thurgood says “its a dry cold”, as he takes ice cubes in his drink.

BUT, when he gets sick, it was from trudging through the snow!  He even collapsed in the snow.  So, I’d have to say, Ailments from cold/damp–more likely Rhus tox than Aconite which is “ailments from cold/dry”.

 

Constitutional Remedy for Thurgood

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Selfish, Aversion to responsibility, Suspicious,

 

Where was he suspicious?  Oh, the flu shot?  You should probably ignore that section of the video.  This is mainstream television, they’re not going to want to offend their sponsors–Big Pharma–meaning, “Everyone should get their flu shot to protect themselves from the flu!” 

Since Thurgood is supposed to be uneducated, they made him the anti-vaccine advocate; that scene was supposed be the premise for Muriel and Thurgood coming down with the flu–they didn’t get vaccinated, so that’s what you get, apparently!

He shouts, he’s egotistical.  He looks like a LACHESIS.

Vamsi, he does shout, but first of all, who does he shout at?  His “inferiors”: Muriel’s sister Be-Be, Haiti Lady, Mrs. Avery.  Secondly, what I noticed about Thurgood’s voice?  He talks with an “air of command”, and that’s actually in the Repertory!  “Dictatorial, command, talking with an air of”.  Also, as you said, aversion to responsibility; but, I don’t see Lachesis in that rubric.  The main remedy in that rubric is Lycopodium.  Lycopodium is the only remedy in Bold for that.  Now here’s the other thing, Lachesis knows how to be charming!  Think of the phrase “snake charmer” (Lachesis being the Bushmaster snake).  Lachesis would have gone up to that customer service window at HUD and flattered and charmed the HUD lady into giving him the winter supplies he asked for; but, the HUD lady didn’t take him seriously at all; and that’s the thing with Lycopodiums, they only get respect from underlings; so he got completely blown off!  Luckily, Muriel was there and she knew how to be charming.  “How are your grandchildren?” she asked, sweetly.

So, my votes are as follows: Arsenicum for Muriel’s flu, Carcinosin for Muriel’s constitution and Lycopodium for Thurgood.

Thanks for voting!

Cheers,

Vamsi.

 

Hmm… I think I see Dr. Salma Afroz from Bangladesh (I have very good vision!)

 

Hi Elaine and Shana,

Hope you are doing well.

I’m guessing that Thurgood is a Lycopodium, Muriel has an Arsenicum album flu and constitutionally she is Pulsatilla.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Salma, you were so close!  It was Lycopodium, Arsenicum and Carcinosin!

And now, I’m pretty sure I see the gang from Slovakia!

 

Hello Elaine and Shana,

Hi Miroslav and Jitka!

…nor the hot summer stopped us trying to solve your interesting but challenging quiz.  We did what we could…:)

Miroslav´s solution.

So I looked at the episode, but I could understand very little.  I couldn´t observe what ameliorates or aggravates Muriel, what she desires and so in this case of flu it is going to be my “blind shot“.  I know from the description that she didn´t want to stay in the room alone…

That was all you needed to know!!!!  That and the diagnosis, and you probably noticed that she was thirsty?  So, you say to yourself, “I need a stomach flu remedy that’s thirsty and is afraid to be alone.”  In fact, she is VERY afraid!  And Thurgood can’t get away from her fast enough!  What remedy acts so desperate that everyone wants to get away from them?  

Her ailment was caused by cold and if I’m not wrong, I saw her barefoot in the snow – so an acute remedy could be Pulsatilla.

I didn’t see Muriel barefoot in the snow at all.

As far as her husband is concerned, he is “unpleasant”…

No, no, no, no, no…..Don’t say “unpleasant”, it’s a very vague term, could mean many things, and not even in the Repertory, so, it doesn’t help us; let’s all try to be more specific and accurate when we’re listing the elements of the case.

…lazy, irritated…

Do you mean “irritable”? (“irritated” isn’t in the Repertory) but “irritable” is another one of those vague words which, even though it’s in the Repertory, isn’t going to help us because hundreds of remedies are listed under it, over 300!

…he wanted to eat the soup which should have been a medicine for his wife!

And what is the rubric for that?  “Selfish”?  But what is striking about Thurgood?  He does NOT want to take care of Muriel!  He wants his life to go on as normal!  So what is the rubric for that?  “Aversion to responsibility”!  And the remedy in bold for that is?????  Lycopodium!

He can only be Arsenicum

No, Muriel is Arsenicum.  She has an Arsenicum flu.  You can tell by her anxiety; Thurgood is not anxiety-ridden over Muriel’s illness at all.  He is selfish and trying to get away with doing as little as possible; though he knows certain things are expected of him, but he does them all ineptly and badly.  

And the constitutional remedy for  Muriel?  It is very difficult to live with the Arsenicum person, she could handle Natrum muriaticum, although initially I thought of Carcinosinum…

Yes!  It is Carcinosin!  You should have stuck with that and not talked yourself out of it!

…but she would probably be more suppressed.  Muriel was nice towards him, she behaved like  a mother towards a child.

And that’s what Carcinosins do!  They are over-responsible and selfless!  Look up both those rubrics in the Repertory, you’ll find Carcinosin there.  You need to go back and read “Revisiting: What Remedy Is Marge Simpson?” again:

https://hpathy.com/case-quizes/revisiting-what-remedy-is-marge-simpson/ [4]

 

***

Jitka´s solution:

I relied mostly on your description of the story because I didn´t understand the dialogue.  My solution is the following.

Muriel – an acute remedy is Arsenicum – a gastric influenza, did not want to be alone and was very demanding.

You are correct!!!

Muriel – a constitutional remedy is  Calcarea carb – she is a very caring person.

A very good guess.  I picked Carcinosin.  They’re very similar. 

Thurgood – a constitutional remedy – Sulphur – innovative (toilet next the bed, a horn for Muriel), always a leader (he is in charge),  lazy, rude, in a hurry.

You make a very good case for Sulphur!  Yes, he is very inventive, isn’t he?  I thought he was Lycopodium but, I like your explanation too!  In fact, I’m calling you a winner!  That means I have to make Krista a winner also–she guessed Sulphur, Arsenicum and Carcinosin.  So, two winners today!  Let’s hear it for Jitka and Krista!

Now, try your hand at this month’s quiz and I’ll see you back here in August; thanks to everybody who voted!

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Elaine Lewis, D.Hom., C.Hom.

Elaine takes online cases! Write to her at [email protected] [7]

Visit her website: www.ElaineLewis.hpathy.com [8]

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