To read last month’s full case quiz. Visit – The Shortest Quiz On Record!
OK, everyone, let’s get started! How did we do? OMG! There’s only 1 right answer! And I thought this case was going to be easy! Is the caller there?
Considering the short description of the case I came up with the fact that:
The patient is thirsty
Vomited after drinking
Knee chest position
I will vote for Phosphorus. If I am wrong, I really don’t have any other ideas!
Well, you’re right; so, no point in having other ideas!
I could use the lost appetite or the sitting quietly but I could not find a proper rubric. Oh boy, what a mess 😛
No, you did fine! Congratulations!!!!
Great, I was wrong for some past quizzes, so that is a good change!!! I will party for that 😛
PS: I laughed my heart out with your remark on the Scorpions’ photo! You were soooooo right! So funny!
“Why aren’t any of these people smiling?”
Hear, hear! I just think it’s so pretentious, this Heavy Metal “tough-guy” swagger, “we’d-just-as-soon-kill-you-as-look-at-you” demeanor; you know what? Drop dead! In real life, you’re probably all a bunch of babies!
Do we have a caller there?
Only ACONITE strikes me now….sudden onset of symptoms, thirsty, fear, acute, no such pathological changes,
pls ..let me know..
Thanks as always.
Actually, the mom suggests that there was a previous cold that she thought the child had relapsed from, so, I didn’t consider it sudden onset. So, to me, it looked like the child didn’t simply wake up in the night but rather woke from thirst; so, the rubric, “Sleep: waking, thirst, by” would be a good place to start. And then, despite being thirsty, she vomits the water immediately, so that would be, “Stomach: vomiting, drinking, after” and as you can see from the chart below, only one remedy covers those two, and that is–Phosphorus!
Yes , if the child had vomited the water immediately after drinking , and need for water .. it would be Phosphorous.
I missed it…oops….:(
Thanks for voting anyway, Vamsi; better luck with this month’s quiz! Is there another caller there?
Actually, i really don’t see anything but BRYONIA!
Even if the complaint is sudden and so doesn’t fit Bryonia (it cannot be ACONITE !!), the whole picture makes me think of BRYONIA:
The thirst on waking
Bryonia’s not in that rubric–I’m using Murphy’s 3rd ed. “Sleep: waking, thirst, by”.
certainly the dryness of the mouth: characteristic of BRY.
Dryness of the mouth wasn’t reported here. You assumed that, for some reason.
All mucosa are dry in BRY
Then the vomiting after drinking (could be ARS or PHOS too, but not on totality)
She ‘s QUIET and LYING scrunched up (i thought: maybe COLOC but she doesn’t complain of pain and she’s not restless so….):
Yes, that is a problem for Colocynth.
BRY is in rubric: “Sleep; position; curled up like a dog”
I wouldn’t have used that rubric, as there are only four remedies in it and they’re all 1’s, and I’m not literally sure what “curled up like a dog” looks like and if that matches what “Mary” looked like, I have no way of knowing. I’d have gone for, “Sleep: position, knees bent, elbows and knees”. There are 29 remedies there; so, a much more reliable rubric, I think.
and “Sleep; position; knees; on; elbows, and”
and finally “WARM” makes me think BRYONIA in a context of “acute disease” like influenza or else…
Right. I assume she had a flu-like illness. Clement, what remedy wakes from thirst, drinks tons of water, and then throws up?
I can imagine only VERATRUM but it’s not in “waking from thirst” specially or “thirsty on waking”
Moreover no abdominal cramps, no chills, no cold perspiration……
Right; so, that would lead me away from Veratrum.
that would be too short a quiz for me!
Well, Clement, Phosphorus has a keynote, which is: a person is very thirsty, drinks a ton of water, and throws it up immediately as soon as it becomes warm in the stomach; also, “waking from thirst”: Phosphorus is a 3. Now, Sleep: position, genu-pectoral (butt in the air)–Phosphorus is in that rubric as a 2, as with “Sleep: position knees bent, elbows and knees”! This case can only be Phosphorus, even as a totality!
I KNOW this key-note that’s why I quoted PHOS (until warm in stomach) and ARS (immediately) in my first message. Moreover the position is useless cause she doesn’t sleep
There isn’t PHOS in “thirst on waking” or “Waking from thirst” (“Complete repertory”):
Good grief! Another mistake they’ve made!
i know you doesn’t like it……You seem to be a little bit extreme, cause I’m sure that if we search with attention in the Murphy’s repertory, we can find added remedies which shouldn’t be there.
Really? Well, I would have no way of determining that; but, I’ve always said about the repertory–all the repertories–that they are incomplete, they are missing remedies and they are missing rubrics. I mostly use Murphy’s repertory but from time to time I switch back and forth between Murphy’s and the Complete. I wrote to Robin Murphy and asked him the following:
As you know, I write for the hpathy.com ezine and I present a quiz case every month. This one (January 2013) is a Phosphorus case. The patient in question wakes up to drink water, which in your repertory has Phosphorus as a 3 (Sleep: waking, thirst, by) However, I have been getting a cascade of wrong answers! Why? They’re all using The Complete Repertory which doesn’t list Phosphorus in that rubric at all! So I have to ask, is this an addition in your repertory based on your experience, or based on what you found in a materia medica, or just common sense that if you wake due to thirst, Phosphorus ought to be there?
my addition, seen it many times.–robin
(So, my suggestion folks: write Phosphorus in bold under “Sleep: waking, thirst, by”.)
PHOS is chilly (in general) and she’s “WARM”
All children tend to be warm. If a child is cold, that’s really significant. But, Phosphorus is also a 2 under “Generals: warmblooded”.
(BRYONIA is “warm”)
PHOS is restless and needs to move.
Phosphorus is a 2 under “Generals: lying amel.” Plus, the rubric “Mind: restlessness” is totally useless! There must be 1,000 remedies in that rubric and all the polychrests are there! Calcarea is there in bold! Yes, slow, sluggish Calcarea is a 3 under “Restlessness”! So is Lycopodium, Sulphur, Ferrum, Sepia, Silica, Carcinosin, Mercury, Pulsatilla…it’s totally useless! What it means is that just about every remedy under the sun can be restless under some circumstances in some way.
She ‘s QUIET and LYING still (BRYONIA…)
PHOS needs company (BRYONIA wants to be alone): we don’t know here….
Exactly, we don’t know, plus, her mother was there anyway.
Maybe it’s clear for you, but not to me
I don’t know how many more Phosphorus symptoms you want! You know that any time you see excessive thirst, you should be thinking of Phosphorus right away. Then, if she throws up what she just drank, now you have to be doubly thinking of phosphorus! The positions she assumes also go for phosphorus. You can only find these positions in the Sleep chapter; so, even though she wasn’t asleep, there’s no other place in the repertory to find them. If you’re checking for the other thirsty remedies, like Veratrum, and you see there’s no prostration, no cold sweat, no chilliness, no collapse; and for Bryonia, no pain anywhere (Bryonia cases have severe pains or severe symptoms that are worse least motion); so, if you can’t make a case for any other very thirsty remedy, and you’ve got a keynote of Phosphorus (vomiting the water that was just drunk in excess), why would you hesitate about giving it? Why would you say there’s not enough information? What are you saying, “Wait until the case gets worse so it’s longer and has more symptoms,” and risk that it moves out of an easy phosphorus case into a complicated Who-Knows-What case??? As Robin Murphy always says, “If you see a keynote of a remedy, give the remedy!”
(it’s really too short to claim: “it’s PHOSPHORUS” because in acute cases more than one remedy can work if the analogy is close..)
This is from Murphy’s Materia Medica:
“Phosphorus has burning thirst for cold water, cold water relieves, but as soon as it becomes warm in the stomach it is vomited. This is one of the keynotes of Phosphorus and distinguishes it from all other remedies in cases of vomiting.”
So, there you have it! A keynote peculiar to Phosphorus. That’s what I saw right away, that’s why I needed no further information.
The uncontrollable thirst could be PHOS VERAT or BRY
I wouldn’t say Bryonia had uncontrollable thirst. They are very dry and so are thirsty for large quantities infrequently, because they really don’t want to move to drink, as movement makes them worse. There are no confirmatory symptoms for Veratrum nor Bryonia.
If we want to be precise, The thirst on waking is “really” not BRY (but it’s “thirst morning” Hahnemman) or PHOS
Moreover her position indicates that pressure is good for her (So BRYONIA…..)
It only indicates that she’s not worse for pressure; but, we actually have no idea why she’s lying that way! Is this the position she goes to sleep in? We don’t know; so, we can’t make too much out of it. Clement, I can see that you’re troubled by the shortness of the case; but, some cases really are short! You see a keynote of a remedy so you go for it! For example, remember the quiz about Shana’s headache when I picked her up from school one day? It was a left-sided headache so I gave her Bryonia. It did nothing. So then I asked the all-important question, “When did it start and what was going on at that time?” It turned out that it had started in math class and she was sitting right in front of the air conditioner! OMG! I knew immediately what remedy to give her: Ailments From cold, dry winds! What famous remedy goes for that? Aconite! And it worked! Now, that’s a short case! But I got an Aconite keynote, what can I say? It happens!
With all my respect
Well, Clement, if it’s any consolation, a lot of people agreed with you. In fact, here’s another one now!
Hi Elaine, I have decided to go with bryonia.
I’ve looked at :
thirst for water (kept on drinking suggests to me thirst)
And what’s our main thirsty remedy? I mean, what’s the most obvious one? And what’s the first remedy that should come to mind if a person drinks excessively and then throws up?
and it was quite apparent to the mother
Being totally quiet suggests to me some aversion to movement for whatever reason, maybe pain? but no talk of pain
Yes, and when there’s no pain in a case, I’m less likely to think of Bryonia. Bryonia cases usually have some sort of severe symptom that is made worse by the slightest movement.
The positions were either genupectoral or the lying scrunched up on side. I found in Murphy’s , under sleep, position, lying on side curled up like a dog.To me it sounds like the fetal position anyways bryonia there is a 1.
Yes, but, you know, a lot of people lie in the fetal position; how remarkable is that, really?
Bravo for you to hit the Bulls Eye with so very little info.
Well, you’re very kind; except that the one thing that the mother did report was a super-keynote of a remedy; so, I don’t know if I was that smart, really……
I’m waiting to be rapped again. Please not so hard because I have to schlep over to India
Vernetta, believe me, you are the ONLY person who has ever schlepped over to India!
and I need to be in good shape for the long journey.
Have a nice trip! (Bring Ledum with you for mosquito bites!)
My final decision: bryonia 30C, one dose.
Is that your final answer?
Of course the bryonia would NOT be my final answer! I have to say that I just might miss my flight unless I get the answer right!
My first choice earlier was phosphorus.
Yes, it is Phosphorus!
And I’ve gone thru my old notes.The drinking, then vomiting , so the thirst and the knee chest position. From what I understand this position could be quite common in the under one year olds, but less so with older kids. I have no idea what the child’s age is.
I think she’s around 5.
I’m returning to phosphorus.
Thank you, oh, and I loved the video of Ricky Nelson and Fats Domino together!
Me too, Vernetta! However, that video wasn’t in this quiz! But you’re right, I love that video too, I think I’ll watch it again!
Thanks so much.These clips keep me happy despite my failures at your quizzes.
I’m just thrilled that anyone watches the videos at all!
But It’s all worth it, your tutorials are great.
Really???????? 🙂 Well, on that upbeat note, Dr. B, what do we have for our winner, Maria?
A ticker-tape parade! How cool! OK, see you back here next time for another great hpathy quiz!!!!